Mushak: Recommended Norwalk zoning changes ‘important’; White: ‘Duh’

NORWALK, Conn. – Once more with feeling: Zoning Commissioner Mike Mushak again pushed last week for traffic studies to be incorporated into zoning regulations. The repetitive plea was met with repetitive results, although this time he had new elements to his requests.

The seven minute-long effort at Wednesday’s Zoning Commission meeting ended when Commissioner Jim White started walking out. It was 11 p.m. White said he needed to get up at 4.

Mushak began pushing for a zoning regulation change last September, one day after the application to put a 109,000-square-foot BJ’s Wholesale Club on the nearly 5-acre Superfund site at 272-280 Main Ave. was withdrawn due to public opposition. He had asked many times why the recommendations in the 2006 Westport-Main Ave. Corridor Study, which cost taxpayers $500,000, had not become zoning law, as recommended in the 2008 Master Plan.

The Common Council’s Zoning Committee subsequently studied limiting the size of retail establishments on Main Avenue, from New Canaan Avenue to Linden Street. That was dropped last month.

Mushak began Wednesday’s soliloquy after a two-hour public hearing on a Glover Street building, which followed a public hearing on the Silvermine Tavern.

Zoning Commission meetings always end with an opportunity for commissioners to comment. This commission meeting was preceded by a Zoning Committee meeting, necessitated by all the snow. Commissioners had been there four hours when Mushak brought up the studies again.

“This was approved in October 2012, that was almost a year and a half ago. I think we should have these conditions in our traffic study.

“Well, we’ll talk about it another time,” White said.

“They should have been adopted by now,” Mushak said.

“They’re only recommendations,” White said, repeating something said by former Corporation Counsel Robert Maslan.

“I want to put these on the agenda for the next meeting to discuss and adopt,” Mushak said. “I can’t imagine any reason we wouldn’t adopt these. They’re were recommended by a national consultant to protect neighborhoods,” he said.

“Motion to adjourn?” Wilson said.

Mushak said, “No, I’m not finished yet. I’m not finished with my comments. I’m sorry.”

He continued as White and Jill Jacobsen stood, mentioning Transportation Oriented Development zoning overlays recommended in 2011 for South Norwalk.

“Redevelopment Agency has been requesting that these be changed for three years and the Zoning Commission has not,” he said. “This would have actually made the Washington Village project more affordable.”

He also talked about contractor yards.

“We promised a year and a half ago that we would address those within in six months and we haven’t. … I think we have shown a pattern of neglect when it comes to our planning and zoning initiatives and I want to see a new approach as soon as possible,” he said.

New Commissioner Nora King asked Mushak to send her an email suggesting a timeline for examining the information.

“I was actually involved with the Common Council with that traffic study. It’s a waste, sitting on the shelf,” she said.

“It’s up to the commission to put it on the agenda,” Deputy Planning and Zoning Director Mike Wrinn said, eventually cautioning that it would take the volunteer commissioners a lot of time to do what Mushak was suggesting.

White began to leave, repeating again that he needed to get up. Mushak said the studies were important, to which White replied, “Duh.”

White said in frustration, “You’re being redundant again.”

This time Mushak did not protest when Wilson said, “Motion to adjourn.”


28 responses to “Mushak: Recommended Norwalk zoning changes ‘important’; White: ‘Duh’”

  1. Osgood Schlater

    When a commissioner fails to act on recommendations from a study that cost the city a half a million dollars, it is a sad state of affairs. Mr. White should be ashamed of himself. Duh,indeed!

  2. spanner

    When a meeting at city carting one of the Mayor Moccias best performances on meadow st took place with councilors no longer with us,the questions came up on traffic study.Hal dismissed why people were sitting on chairs in the interersection with clip boards at the facility as not related.Another resident complained about large trucks cutting thru South Main st .This was also done on weekends in the summer not counting busses and Fed Ex trucks on Meadow and Wilson ave.

    This was all after One of the State reps got a no truck rule thru Rowyaton pushing all additiional trucks by housing and streets filled with children in south Norwalk.A intersection not made for trucks(Burritt and Woodward ave) now handle all traffic for city carting making it not only dangerous but accident prone.

    Would a traffic study pointed out those missing vehicles from the count and the fact the State route needed work before the city gave city carting card blanche? Im curious.

    The potholes now from those trucks have risen to a another term called crators I’m sure that problem no traffic study could of helped.

    Thanks Mike I imagine that study is in the shelf with the Train Station and many others hidden from public.

  3. EDR

    What is the matter with everyone. It is obvious that Mr Mushak has no respect among his fellow commissioners. He may have a good point but his actions have caused his colleagues not to even consider his comments any more. It iis human nature to react to him in the way they do. His behavior is horrible and his gorilla tactics work. To bad as he could have been a good commissioner if he actually tried working with people.

  4. sofaman

    What’s obvious is Mr. Mushak’s valiant effort to change the “There’s no such thing as over-development” attitude that has plagued Norwalk for years. Decades of neglect and active delay tactics shown in the video have led to a city where auto traffic is horrible, walking is near impossible, and cycling is downright dangerous.

    Old attitudes need to change.

  5. Mike Mushak

    EDR, your comment is wrong an many counts, as you do not know what you are talking about. This issue of stalled movement on almost every single planning and zoning issue to help Norwalk spur smart development should not be about personalities at all. It is about doing what is right, and following our expert studies and Master Plans which takes hard work and dedication, which the staff and GOP leadership in Joe Santo and Emily Wilson are not capable or willing to do.
    They simply can’t be bothered, and I sit there having to repeat myself ad nauseum until someone finally gets it. It is appalling that we have come to this point, and that I am left begging for things that should have been done years or decades ago to improve Norwalk’s obsolete planning process and broken zoning code.
    Trust me, many in City Hall including Council members on BOTH sides of the aisle know exactly what I am talking about, and support me privately. They know what Greene and Santo have done to the city and the process, as they hear plenty of the same complaints from their own constituents and major developers and property owners. The problem is no one has the courage to do anything about it, except me and a few other who pay a steep price in bullying and stress from the entrenched forces, as the record shows over so many years.
    They have been able to wear down others who wanted change over the years, but I am not that easy a pushover, and I know what the city needs because I actually read and believe in the millions of dollars of expert plans and studies that are routinely ignored by these characters. As one old P and Z staffer once told me over drinks, folks like me come along every few years who want change, and they just have to sit us out and we eventually get tired and go away. Well, when I see the damage done by this attitude, and the climate of widespread corruption of process and lack of respect for the public from some key staff, it makes my blood boil that we are paying for this with our high taxes. We deserve better and I am fighting for every Norwalker, not myself, when I demand excellence in the face of so much mediocrity. I have seen what other cities can do across the country with smart leadership and professional staffs, and sadly we are not getting that here. Why? Are we that different that we can’t have what other cities have in terms of smart planning and zoning initiatives? Why do so many accept that we do not deserve that? It is like an entrenched inferiority complex, as if we are less deserving of what other cities have. I beg to differ, and that what gets me out of bed in the morning to fight this nonsense.
    The job of reforming our broken planning system is so overwhelming to the entrenched bureaucrats and Moccia-era party hacks that he saddled all the commissions with that the easiest way out is to stall indefinitely, and single out and bully me, the one person who can see what is going on here and wants to change it. This is a classic strategy, and we can see after decades of mediocrity and bad planning decisions, where that has gotten us, which is basically a traffic-clogged mess with failing downtowns and struggling neighborhoods, and a collapsed tax base.
    For instance, years after the mosque application, we still have the same zoning code that allowed that application in the first place. The GOP leadership in Santo and Wilson, who have traded places back and forth for years as Chair and Co-Chair to tenaciously hold onto power, could care less about fixing the broken code. So we can still have another mosque project at that size anywhere in Norwalk, in any neighborhood regardless of traffic or scale.
    This same climate of neglect has kept business-friendly zone changes from happening for years. Wilson, as Chair then, basically lied to the huge contractor community without any remorse when she PROMISED action in january 2013 within 6 months that the Commission would revisit much needed zone changes to allow for smaller and less expensive contractor yards for the hundreds of small contractors who can’t afford over $1 million to follow the existing draconian rules to open a business. Which, by the way, are the strictest in Fairfield County, and which are keeping hundreds of underutilized or empty properties all across the city from being filled with vibrant new businesses that would spur our economy instantly if the changes were made, and add to the tax base significantly with increased property values. the GOP leadership, which you might think would be business-friendly, instead made those changes go “poof” just disappear, which is what staff wanted, and Wilson and Santo follow the staff’s lead without ever challenging them. It is failed leadership, and we all pay a steep price for it.
    Hal Alvord called the $500,000 Transportation Management Plan “urgent to the future of Norwalk” 3 years ago when it was approved, yet we still haven’t adopted the study’s specific P and Z recommendations, to have peer review studies conducted on large projects like BJ’s, and to have any project over 20,000 square feet conduct a traffic study that impacts any intersection with any increase over 25 cars per peak hour. This would have forced BJ’s to study the surrounding neighborhoods of Cranbury and Silvermine, including on Aiken, West Rocks, Perry, Broad,and New Canaan Ave, which were all mostly ignored by the applicant’s study which only addressed a tiny portion of Main Ave using mysterious criteria that staff determined (and never shared) in secret meetings withe applicant for almost a year before the commission and public knew anything about it. When the application finally was submitted and we had our first public meeting in June 2013 to discuss it,I was told it was too late to change the study as staff had already determined what it was, and that the $500k Transportation Plan recommendations were not in force even though the study had been finished for 6 months by that time, completed in September 2012.
    I was also told by Emily Wilson that we could NOT have a peer review study done, which I requested to protect public health and safety on that dangerous road and to protect the Silvermine and Cranbury (including Aiken St) areas from potential negative traffic impacts. Wilson told me it was illegal to request that as it “wasn’t in the regulations”, and when I produced the state law that gave us that right at the next meeting, she just gave me a typical nasty response and acted as if the whole attempt to protect neighborhoods and public safety was just a nuisance. If the application had not been withdrawn at the last minute, the public would have never have had the scrutiny and due diligence of the traffic impacts that I had been requesting, and which are in the $500k Plan which I asked to be followed for all future large applications over 20,000 square feet, at the meeting this past week which NON describes here.
    Last, the TOD zoning overlay for SoNo was recommended in an expert study finished 3 years ago, in 2011. The Redevelopment Agency (NRA) commissioned the study, and since Mike Greene sees any suggestion by the NRA as a personal assault on his authority(I am not kidding, …), the study’s recommendations to reduce parking requirements and increase density and heights are just sitting on the shelf, with Santo and Wilson oblivious to any of these studies or their urgency.
    These changes would have an instant effect on new development and renovations, spurning new housing (affordable and market rate)and new locally-owned businesses which we need desperately. The TOD zoning overlay is smart planning and follows national trends, and should have been implemented immediately 3 years ago, but they are just sitting there because of the failed leadership of both the Planning and Zoning Commissions and petty personality rivalries of P and Z staff.
    Yet, despite all these examples, folks like EDR and others who despise reform and change make this all about me, for daring to shine sunlight onto this horrible state of our failed system. I get so sad and angry when I think what possibilities Norwalk would have if folks like me didn’t have to waste most of our time trying to get our staff and commissions to follow expert advice and national best practices planning trends.
    It is ugly and exhausting work to directly confront this entrenched ignorance and petty nastiness, and suffer the repeated bullying, on the Zoning Commission and from staff, and I wonder sometimes why I do it, but then I look around at all the frustrated folks in Norwalk, the failed neighborhoods, the blight, the trash, the empty storefronts,the sky-high taxes, and then I see a staff with questionable qualifications that have been there for decades, who get no performance reviews despite six-figure salaries and guaranteed raises every year. I also see commission appointees who are party hacks and Moccia-era bullies who routinely gang up on me to protect the status quo and make no progress on anything that will help Norwalk out of its struggling state.
    I see all that lost potential to be a truly great city, and it gets me up in the morning to fight this nonsense another day. Thanks, EDR, for inspiring me to write another defense of doing what is right in the face of so much adversity. It will take another 18 months for Harry to clean the commissions up, and hopefully not long to look at staff replacements in order to get qualified professionals in to start cleaning up this mess we have been left with. In the meantime, we need the $500k Transportation Plan, TOD zoning overlay, and contractor yard changes to be adopted as soon as possible. I urge the public to pressure their Common Council members and the mayor to have the staff have these much-needed and long overdue changes made as soon as possible. They should not get away with any more delays based on blaming others including me for their stubborn inaction and refusal to do almost anything that will help the city.
    We do not have time to wait any longer, as we miss more opportunities every day to grow and flourish and be the city we deserve to be.

    This comment was edited to conform with out policy.

  6. jlightfield

    Changing zoning regulations is hard work. As chair of zoning I found it difficult to balance the time needs between review of significant applications, developing the aquifer protection agency and tackling regulations that sorely needed work. In the end, I view the best way to tackle our zoning regulations is to rewrite them in whole, rather than in parts.
    This would mean creating a group tasked with managing the process and acquiring funding for a consultant to actually write the new regulations. The problem with this approach has been the lack of a Master Plan that outlines implementation recommendations.
    Sadly this is a financial issue, and despite efforts to increase the efficiency and revenue in the zoning department, the work to continue building that infrastructure was dropped by new leadership on the commission.
    Let’s be clear, many of the studies and plans Mike Mushak points out, have come at great cost, yet fail to provide implementation recommendations, or even clear actionable items. Much of that is due to a process that fails to incorporate subject matter expertise, and data driven analysis. Too much of what we see year after year, are anecdotal stories, without deep technical understanding of the underlying infrastructure and policy that contribute to our planning, regulations and quality of life.
    That technical expertise does come at a price, DPW, Building and Zoning are understaffed and lack a modern system that integrates information about properties and streets. Much of the work that could be automated, is manual, is time consuming, is paper based. Until decisions are made by political leadership to fund the investment into technology that results in more efficient departments filled with staff that can leverage that investment, nothing will change.
    I have stated before, and I will do so again, you can’t manage what you don’t know. Without basic support for the tools and staffing needed to perform the volume of work needed to map out our water, sewer, gas, electrical, road, traffic grid, etc. then we get what we pay for, and continue the endless battles over the meager allocation of tax revenue on a stagnant grand list.

  7. Suzanne

    Mike, Thank You. Thank you for being so tenacious and fighting so hard for the kind of City we could be as opposed to the status quo kind of City that we are because of all the reasons you have stated above. Publicly expressed metaphors: “A prophet in his own land” and “The Persistent Friend”. Whatever other members have to say about your efforts, those who see what you do know that it is not only important but essential to the future of our city to prosper. Mr. White’s “Duh!” is not only unprofessional, the reaction of the others on the board not only mean-spirited, it actually belies belief to me that the lack of professionalism is tolerated one second longer. I am sorry that your fight has been such a long one and that is to say I appreciate your persistence on the Town’s behalf. I honestly don’t know how conscientious, conscious, “good” urban planning and development would be achieved at any level without you.

  8. Suzanne

    jlightfield, what you write makes complete sense. Why isn’t there a strategy planned, step by step, and a work group meeting with an outside consultant (such as the one the City Council had recently that I presume did not come at a steep price but provided a good venue and exercise to create goals and specific tasks to address.) Or, a meeting that identifies necessary steps and, where necessary, an outside planner attend. If this infrastructure is so necessary to the future health and well-being of our Town, lack of funds is just an excuse to not do the digging, get the data, work out the intricacies of launching the implementation of those expensive, already-completed studies. If the data needs to be nailed down, put it on the list. If computerization needs to take place (a paper system? Really?) then put it on the list with a deadline. (Those that evaluate systems, by the way, and I have experience in this with a much larger, more complicated institution should ensure that whatever system is selected, it is flexible, uses readily available software and is not too tied to one, proprietary system, not unlike the search tools, Microsoft based, in the Town Clerk’s office. The proprietary is often closed, particular to its own requirements and doesn’t not allow for evolutionary changes without standing on your head.) All of what you mention means tedious labor and getting one’s hands dirty, so to speak, in obtaining necessary data and nailing it down for implementation. I don’t know of a single municipal project of any success, not one transportation system nor one building for that matter that does not require solid data, evaluation of space and implementation. Again, no money for this? Then shut the town down because NOT doing this kind of work will cause more damage than good however nice the concept for improvement.

  9. anon

    Jackie makes sense. Mushak gives me a headache.

  10. Oldtimer

    Unfortunately, too many commissioners are more loyal to the political party than they are to the taxpayer’s best interests, much like congress. They forget being a commissioner is meant to be public service, not party service. Mushak annoys them because he does not conform to their way of party-first thinking. To them it makes sense to ignore a half million dollar study because it conflicts with the interests of big money party supporters.

  11. Mike Mushak

    Thanks Suzanne and Jackie. We do have plenty of data and expert advice already to make recommended zone changes. More data would be helpful but we already paid millions for studies that are full of data and case studies to use as templates for our own policy changes.
    To say we need to a whole rewrite, to push “reset” basically, on our obsolete zoning code is accurate, and I agree, but to use that as an excuse not to implement incremental changes that our studies call for in the short term is just making excuses for inaction. The elephant in the room that no one wants to deal with is Mike Greene, who doesn’t live in Norwalk but who protects the broken code and system with a tenacity that is unprofessional and sells-serving. Change means work, and why would he want that? It’s easier to attack agents if change like me and you with petty games and manipulation of the process than it us to sit down and make it happen.
    It is almost criminal the way South Norwalk has been ignored, for instance, with much-needed zone changes to spur smart growth as taxpayer-funded studies have recommended, and I have had several prominent developers approach me and complain about Greene’s nasty attitude towards them when requesting action on existing studies and our Master Plan, going back decades.
    They feel trapped as Greene can control any application they make, and we saw what Greene did to the Washington Village proposal by manipulating Planning Commission obstruction based on a bogus and obsolete public garage idea from a decade ago, simply because of Greene’s personal animosity towards the Redevelopment Agency.
    Compare to Stamford, where their former P and Z Director Robin Stein, who actually was a professional planner unlike Greene, helped spearhead the rebuilding of almost all of the rundown and dangerous public housing projects in Stamford into vibrant and safe mixed income housing complexes using federal HUD money and smart stewardship.
    Norwalk is decades behind other cities like Stamford, with our substandard projects with their entrenched cycle of poverty and poor living conditions, and we clearly have a P and Z Director who is obstructing this process to improve this instead of helping, the exact opposite of what we need in that position.
    We saw what poor management and incompetence had done to the Norwalk Museum with the huge waste of taxpayer money and loss of the public trust for years. The same thing is happening in our P and Z Department but with much broader implications for the entire city. It is unacceptable that it continue like this as we simply can’t afford it any longer.
    Jackie, you did push for real change and a smarter approach as zoning chair which I admired and supported, but I also saw how staff fought you on much of it, and of course you were rewarded by Moccia by not being nominated for a third term. That’s what happens to reformers and agents of change in Norwalk, at least in the past.

  12. The people’s Mayor???? Where is Rilling –
    After all he is the “hope and change” mayor you voted in…
    Let’s hear from Rilling…..

  13. Jlightfield

    Mike Mushak I’m always a fan of change and admire your passionate efforts to be a change agent. But we clearly diverge on how up go about doing that. 🙂
    But having different opinions, taking different sides on an issue, and disagreement on stuff doesn’t mean that people can’t unite to do great things. There were many things I would have liked to accomplish on zoning. But often I would be the sole advocate for a policy and have to work hard at convincing my fellow commissioners (including you) to support change.
    Reducing parking requirements and modernizing sign regations spring to mind. I didn’t get to zero minimums in the urban core, but that doesn’t mean I blame any one person for failing in that. Change is tough, it takes hard work, it also takes convincing many stakeholders to support change. And having real studies with hard data takes time. It also, with a lack of staff, costs money.
    Yes it is frustrating to see how slow the pace of change is in Norwalk. But the grass doesn’t grow that much faster in more evolved cities. They often just started earlier, and that is where it is important to focus on what we can do despite the temptation to focus on what we want to do more.
    As Thomas Edison (another jersey boy) said, invention is 1% inspiration 99% perspiration. Or something like that.
    Politicians will come and go (talking of Michelangelo), but in the end change will happen. When one door closes another opens. And sometimes you just go ahead and build it.

  14. Mike Mushak

    Jackie, well said, and I will just add that my hobby of visiting and studying hundreds of cities over the years, many similar in size and with similar problems as Norwalk, convinces me that we have had plenty of time to get it right. Don’t forget we did Sono in the 80’s, and were ahead of the game including being recognized for smart development at one time over 20 years ago. Now we are held up as a textbook example of how NOT to plan a city, with an emphasis on big box and suburban style parking and density requirements in the downtown areas that stifle smart growth. Now look at what happened to the leadership of the Pand Z Department over that same time period, and who was in charge.
    I just visited Mobile Alabama on a whim a few weeks ago, thinking this historic oystering city might be fun to see on the way to New Orleans two hours away for some more mid-winter urban exploring. We spent three days there, and were blown away. Despite some recession-related issues, the downtown was thriving with an extensive wayfinding system in place, a successful BID (business improvement district) downtown, a cute “circulator” or free trolley system looping for 3 miles around downtown, with bright green metal umbrellas over cute benches identifying the frequent stops, a busy convention center, an active historic preservation movement, and an active arts community with a cool contemporary art space fully supported by the city. David and met with their BID staff in a storefront called “Downtown Mobile Alliance, and we talked for an hour about their issues and problems.
    Funding is always an issue, but they are fully supported by the their city’s leadership and Pand Z department , and it shows. This same experience we have had in countless other cities across the country in our travels, often meeting with local officials, and when I see the struggles Norwalk has just to get the simplest things accomplished you have to ask why.
    All of our departments compete with each other instead of working together, and in some cases like Redevelopment and Pand Z, actually work against each other. There is little cooperation between the Parking Authority, DPW, Pand Z, and Redevelopment for achieving shared goals, mostly based on some nasty personalities, two in particular, and a long history of lack of leadership demanding a shared vision. I know Mayor Rilling is working on this but he will no doubt hit the same roadblocks we all know about, and come to the same conclusion that staff replacements must happen if we are ever going to improve this situation.

  15. Well rilling should have no problem getting rid
    Of these people you have outlined just can’t wait to see what pro union payback will go in.

    These days meandering around the south were no doubt a noncompensated vacation on your part or did it cost the taxpayers money?

  16. Kathleen Montgomery

    The bottom line:
    The effects of workplace bullying have been researched heavily over the past decade. Two findings seem to fit the City of Norwalk: targets of bullying are highly successful people (who quit) and the financial strength of the workplace will drastically decline. Attempts to actually get things done are not an option for Norwalk until the Mayor makes it his immediate goal to identify and replace the blockers and bullies. And even then it will take time for the culture of negativity to change. A good article to consult is:
    The Silent Epidemic: Workplace Bullying
    Workplace bullying is the silent epidemic
    Published on May 3, 2011 by Ray Williams in Wired for Success

  17. Suzanne

    Kathleen, An excellent reference and accurate “leap” to what really is going on with P and Z. Having read your linked article, I think Mike better take up yoga!

  18. Mike Mushak

    Thanks for the info. I often read Landscape Architecture magazine to relieve stress, as I get the magazine as a licensed landscape architect and member of the American Society of Landscape Architects. But sometimes I read an article about another city’s success at form-based zoning, smart growth, vibrant waterfront development, or bike lane systems and I get stressed all over again knowing Norwalk’s planning system is so dysfunctional we may never get there!

    Sarah, my travels are all on my own time and not tax deductible. In fact, since you asked, I used miles for air and hotel and took a Megabus from Mobile to New Orleans that cost $16 for a two hour trip, instead of $175 for a one way rental car. I wanted to take a train as there used to be Amtrak service between Mobile and New Orleans but after Katrina damaged the track, the GOP governors of Mississippi and Alabama didn’t accept federal money to rebuild the tracks since trains are a liberal idea and part of Obama’s socialist agenda to take over America. I kid you not. The only Coast to coast train in America, the Sunset Limited, used to go from Orlando to LA and now has to start in New Orleans before heading west to LA. We are quickly becoming a third world country but let’s save that discussion for another time.

  19. Tobias

    I think looking at traffic patterns when developing is extremely important. Ever try to get out of Walmart on Route 7 on a weeknight? It’s hard enough getting into traffic at the end of West Rocks… Then it’s a game of chicken to turn left with people going into West Rocks from the new iPark LA Fitness across the way. That whole intersection needs to be rethought…. A little forethought would have been nice.

  20. the donut hole

    Prozac, anyone?

  21. the donut hole

    @Tobias, don’t blame Norwalk. Toni Boucher is one of the reasons why Rt 7 ends here. It is incredible that she thinks she could be Governor when she is almost single handedly responsible for the economic malaise in the entire corridor.

  22. Mike, thanks for the info but as usual TMI.
    As a FYI, You need to stop with all the run on information – sometimes people just don’t care to hear every minute detail going on in your mind.

  23. Suzanne

    irishgirl, sometimes they do.

  24. MUSAK gives me a headache

    Suzanne, most of the time they don’t.

  25. Nancy,
    As well as what is said in a posting that needs to be civil, wouldn’t a person’s alias also need to be civil?
    While the poster is challenged in spelling Mushak’s last name, the intent is quite clear. This poster has an agenda and it is not civil.

    1. Mark Chapman

      And here we thought he just didn’t like elevator music…
      We are trying to walk a line between allowing expression, especially when it comes to public figures — those who are elected, appointed or hired — and enforcing our policy. Despite sarcasm and other attempts to cast aspersions on the enforcement, it will continue.

  26. @Mark,
    That is quite funny!! I guess THAT is the poster meant…elevator music! Got it!

  27. Mike Mushak

    I can only say that the reason I might give someone a headache is that truth sometimes hurts! These small-minded nasty trolls try to ruin our valuable public forums (or is that “fora”?) by hurling insults instead if adding to the debate. I say, expose their true identities and let’s see who they really are! Now that would be funny!

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