Quantcast

Police: Rilling’s honesty, fairness needed by Norwalk

Updated, 12:08 a.m., Oct. 18: additional video

NORWALK, Conn. – Harry Rilling’s “honesty and fairness” were cited Wednesday by Norwalk Police officers as they endorsed their former chief for mayor, suggesting to Norwalk citizens that it would be better to vote for the Democrat Rilling than for incumbent Republican Mayor Richard Moccia.

The men, who are in contract negotiations with the city, stood on the steps of the old City Hall in South Norwalk and talked to the press, lacking the hesitancy of the Norwalk firefighters who stood there Monday, also to endorse Rilling.

“He was always fair and honest and that’s, as a union, all we really ask,” said Det. David Orr, president of the American Federation of State, County & Municipal Employees Local 1727, which represents Norwalk Police Department employees. “We just ask that our contract be followed to the letter and that there be no re- or misinterpretation of the contract and that we be treated fairly and honestly. … We believe that not only for our police department but towards us, the whole city, every department and every union, will benefit from Harry Rilling being the mayor. He will extend that honesty and fairness to all of the city’s employees. That will basically trickle down to a better quality of life and living situation for all of the citizens here.”

Moccia said that he wasn’t surprised the police union endorsed Rilling, given the 17-year chief’s long history with the men who voted for him.

“There’s no contract, they probably figure he can be a little more favorable to them,” he said. “That’s fine.”

Union members are operating without a contract at present, Orr said. Their three-year contract expired June 30.

Like the firefighters, Orr indicated that contracts are at a root of the problem he has with Moccia.

“In speaking with Chief Rilling I feel as though we are on the same page, that contracts are negotiated under a certain spirit,” he said. “There is a philosophy that goes into each element, each section. Potentially that might get misinterpreted or reinterpreted by people who weren’t part of the process, or people who were part of the process that have an agenda, that want to change things.”

“They’re not asking for anything above and beyond what they’re expecting to get,” Rilling said.

“All they’re asking is that they be treated with respect and that things not be changed in the middle of the game,” he said. “I can’t say it more clearly than this. A contract is a contract. The words that are written down speak for themselves. There’s legislative intent, there’s intent when you negotiate a contract. When people start to step outside the intent of the contract language, that’s when you run into problems. That’s when bargaining people start to feel that they are being treated unfairly.”

Rilling said he appreciated the endorsement for a value beyond its potential effect on the election. He said, “This validates in my mind the work I did with the police department and makes me feel that I did an admirable job, that it was truly recognized by the members of my team.”

Harry Rilling public safety platform 101613 080
Former Norwalk Police Chief Harry Rilling updates his former colleagues about the status of his mayoral campaign and issues he thinks are important Wednesday in front of the old City Hall in South Norwalk.

Comments

69 responses to “Police: Rilling’s honesty, fairness needed by Norwalk”

  1. They look so angry…

    Democrat? Republican? Unaffiliated? Independent?

    What’s the message here; increased taxes = raises. It’s very clear at this point what Mr. Rilling’s plans are for Norwalk.

    Living in Norwalk for 30+ yrs I look at the cast of characters in this photo and ask myself: who are they? I’ve never seen one of these guys in a Walmart or at the beach or in a supermarket or at The Oyster fest. Which makes me think: Most of them probably do not live in Norwalk. Why should they influence our Mayoral election through a proxy bs Union endorsement. And for those who say: they protect and serve. Great, but they chose that job and I admire them for it for it but I chose something else.

  2. M Allen

    “We just ask that our contract be followed to the letter and that there be no re- or misinterpretation of the contract and that we be treated fairly and honestly.”
    .
    For anyone that has the insight, what exactly was re- or misinterpreted?

  3. Daisy

    oh, what short memories people have – Moccia was originally elected because the firefighters hadn’t had a contracted in years and he supported them, to the point that that first election night, they CARRIED him into the party at the Inn and shoved one of their sweatshirts over his suit.

  4. Piberman

    Democrats are following Gov. Malloy’s strategy – union süpport with higher raises and benefits. Never mind the tax boost that follows. If it works in Hartford why not Norwalk ? Never mind most City workers live out of town. Democrats know that Norwalk residents enjoy high taxes. If our teachers are the highest paid of any City in CT why not give first place to all our unions ? Democrats are preserving Norwalk’s future – highest salaries for its workers while property values stagnate and decline. Why isn’t everyone following Democrats and voting for higher taxes ? The “unions” are behind us Democrats !

  5. LWitherspoon

    @M Allen
    I asked the same question regarding the firefighters. The answer appears to be that the City is insisting on greater contributions to the cost of health care from existing and retired employees.
    .
    If a contract is written in such a way that leaves critical items open to multiple interpretations, then it was a badly written contract and both sides share the blame for accepting it.
    .
    I share your interest in more information about what was re- or mis-interpreted.

  6. M Allen

    @LW – I’m not trying to be critical about asking, but I find it easy to imply that one party is somehow being unfair without some underlying detail provided. In fact, I’m a little surprised the story couldn’t have included some specifics about the issues. Are we just supposed to say, “Oh yeah, Officer Jim says the Mayor wasn’t fair. It must be so.” We ned more than soundbites from a union rep out to say nice things about his candidate and the guy who may be sitting across the table (in spirit) come negotiation time.

  7. JustAsking

    Is there a list showing headcount of both police and fire department and how many live in Norwalk?

  8. LWitherspoon

    @M Allen
    Agreed. If the Municipal Employee Unions wish to proclaim in NoN that the Mayor has been unfair to them, they should be prepared to explain exactly how. With all due respect to Detective Orr, his explanation is not clear at all. I’m a little surprised that NoN would trumpet such an accusation without challenging the accusers for details.
    .
    Perhaps the alleged “unfairness” has something to do with the Union’s recent complaint that the Norwalk PD is replacing the rank of Captain with that of Deputy Chief, which is not a Union position and is not eligible for overtime. If so, did Rilling himself have any role in that change?

    1. Mark Chapman

      @ LWitherspoon and MAllen

      You both raise good questions, and we are hoping to be able to get some answers. The latter comment about mis-interpretation and re-interpretation of the contract was in response to Nancy’s attempt to get more details at the press conference. It has been my experience that union and management officials are highly reluctant to give details about contract negotiations in most cases. That is why contracts are discussed in executive sessions. There are exceptions, but those are usually high profile cases that tend to drive a deeper wedge between the parties. And, as we know, police are notoriously tight-lipped about things. We will, however, pursue this further.

  9. M Allen

    Well it didn’t sound like it was in relation to current negotiations. All the talk about “a contract is a contract” seemed like it was about the existing contract. But during negotiations, regardless of whether they believe Harry is fair now, I can bet they will say how unfair he is if he doesn’t meet their demands. It’s all tactics. I truly hope the police union gets what it deserves. But I don’t think the current Mayor has been “unfair” in his dealings with them. Perhaps not as “fair” as they would have liked, but I don’t believe he’s been unfair to that group. As far I knew he was always a big supporter of the police (and Harry for that matter). But alas, times change.

  10. Tim T

    They look so angry
    You make some very good points. I would add that one look at the picture and we see the average age of a Norwalk cop is mostly very young. The reason for this is simple the ones that had experience and the ones that understood the job all leave ASAP as they don’t want to be affiliate with the group of misfits the NPD is thanks to Rillings time as police consultant. Also you are correct in pointing out that they are Not Norwalk residents. We are got enough for a paycheck but not good enough to live here and that includes the current chief.

  11. Lifelong Teacher

    Hmmm. Yes, why do we care about what a bunch of out of towners say about our mayoral race? They don’t care about our city, or who runs it. All that matters to them is their contract.

    Cops and firefighters who live here? Paying taxes, raising their children in Norwalk? Them – I will listen to.

  12. Tim T

    All I can say is if somehow Rilling gets elected.. HOLD ONTO YOUR WALLETS as the new contract for the cops will be insane..I guess cops making close to 200000 per year on the backs of the taxpayer is not enough. If we actually had someone running for mayor that had a bit of smarts they would realize the cops working without a contract would be a perfect time to clean house at the NPD (and a good house cleaning it needs), as they are without a contract considered at will employees…. It would also be a great time to require all cops to live in Norwalk as part of the new contract.. However we will see none of this with Rilling as blue will be taking care of blue on the backs of the taxpayer..

    Please keep in mind folks the police and fire unions are not your friends. The only purpose they serve is to get more and more for their members as they do less and less for the taxpayer.

  13. You may want to check your facts

    At least half the cops in that photo are Norwalk residents, so you may want to re-assess that. Are you constantly walking around stores in Norwalk, a city that boasts around 86,000 residents and checking their faces to see if they are civil servants?

    As for increasing taxes, tell me, when was the last time that your city taxes were raised due to a salary increase (which for the last decade have never been more then following inflation)for the Police Department? Also, have you followed the housing market in Norwalk as compared to that of Stamford, Darien, Trumbull, Monroe, Fairfield, etc? What incentive does a person have to actually live here and want to raise children here? Where have your taxes gone in the last 8 years? Certainly not towards improving the city and making it more enticing for businesses to come in. Does Norwalk really need more “affordable housing” i.e. Section 8? Does Norwalk need more after hours barber shops, dollar stores and bodegas?
    You say you want these men and woman to buy houses and live here in Norwalk, but at the same time don’t address the issue of Norwalk’s abysmal education rating in FFLD county or it’s horrible home value as compared to surrounding towns. Perhaps a change is what is needed to fix these things instead of just keeping it business as usual with the construction shell game every two years before election time only to see those projects be forever stalled (West Ave anyone? Poko Development on Wall St? Globe Theater?)

    And Tim T, you also may want to check your facts. The reason that so many older Officer left the job was due to the inception of the DROP retirement plan, which created a lot of movement within both the fire and police departments, and not in a negative way. Just things to think about. I’m also fairly certain that in regards to discussing contract specifics and negotiations, any municipal union is unable to discuss those items publicly.

    Though, instead of chatting about it here, why not stop a cop or fireman and talk to them. Maybe ask them personally. Strike up a conversation with them.

  14. You may want to check your facts

    @Tim T

    Can you show us one municipality that requires its employees to reside in the town they work in? Is there a reason you would demand this of Norwalk’s? Is there actual logical reasoning to it? I’m sure you are also aware of the fact that those officers who do earn overtime, mostly do so from construction companies (who hire state wide) that prefer having officers on their job sites and that this isn’t taken out of the city budget?

    You also can not “clean house” as you say in the PD, FD, teachers union or any other municipality that operates off a contract, just because a contract expires, as the collective bargaining unit operates off the old contract until a new one is settled. All the same things apply.

  15. @ LWitherspoon and MAllen
    Det. Orr declined further comment. I just added the video of him elaborating a bit on the topic, which includes the quote I used later in the story.

  16. Grandma

    Yep, bunch of mean angry mofos’ in blue. Lol. OK who has the gum. C’mon, you know the rules. No gum chewing in class or at prees briefings. Actually there are a few familiar faces from town. We see you way back there Willams, smile for us. David, wait till street or air traffic noice passes, in press briefings, if your not wearing or have a mic. Want people to hear what you have to say. Shouting over noise, the message and delievery can be lost and/or scrambled. Now those with the gum, will stay after, for the social etiquette refresher training video. Lol. Slow down, drive safe(er) and let the public see you guys smile now and again. It’s good for community relations. Now can we lighten up on all the tickets, a litte, please? We dont want all these traffic stops to culminate in a tragedy, like, Wendy Lawrence in New Hampshire or the countless other police involved shootings across America happening daily. Stay cool. control the adrenelin. We love ya, ya all be safe out there.

  17. Tim T

    You may want to check your facts
    You state

    “Though, instead of chatting about it here, why not stop a cop or fireman and talk to them. Maybe ask them personally. Strike up a conversation with them.”
    … Please tell us what year did you retire or are you a current cop as no taxpayer would support this.

    (This comment has been edited to conform to our policy.)

  18. Tim T

    You may want to check your facts
    I was referring to the police and not the FD or teachers, so please do not put words in my mouth. The police are the only ones ripping the taxpayer off. I know of no teacher making close to 200000 even with a master degree. Also I know of no firefighter making close to 200000

  19. You may want to check your facts

    Did you even read the link you posted? It doesn’t really do well for your theory, especially in the state of CT.

    Also, are you going to just blatantly ignore the fact that the majority of a officers OT is paid by private companies, organizations and people and not the tax payer? And that police funded OT is built into the budget and that the police department has consistently come in or under budget? Or the fact that the police department makes up roughly 5% of the cities overall budget? And again, when was the last time a police contract raised out taxes? Can you answer those questions? With facts, not opinions?

  20. Norwalk Lifer

    Norwalk Police do their jobs, they do the best they can, I’ve seen it personally. If anyone here thinks this is an easy job, why not try it?

    The bashing unnecessarily for political gain is disgusting

    Regards
    Norwalk Lifer

  21. M Allen

    Tim – you keep being wrong on the same subject. We know you have a distaste for police, our Norwalk’s most certainly. But please, stop.

  22. Daisy

    You want to check your facts? NO – no municipality requires its employees to live there. (they used to, which is how I ended up in Norwalk) BUT – when they live elsewhere, it creates an atmosphere where they don’t care a bit about any other services Norwalk has to offer, as long as they keep getting their own fat paychecks. They shouldn’t be allowed to endorse or open their mouths. The reason they want to live up the line (Trumbull, Monroe, Shelton, Derby, etc.)is precisely because they make so much more in Norwalk than they’d make where they live – but because real estate is more valuable in Norwalk, they can getting bigger homes and yard up the line. (and can make enough here to pay other people to take care of those homes and yards since the commute will make them tired).

  23. LWitherspoon

    @Nancy
    Thank you for the follow-up. I find it very odd that Det. Orr won’t tell us the details of how the City has been “unfair and dishonest.” Nor will he tell us how their contract has been violated. If there was truly a violation, where and when are they filing a grievance?
    .
    In the absence of an explanation, I can only conclude that this case is similar to that of the firefighters – the City is trying in some way to drive a harder bargain on the taxpayer’s behalf, and the Union doesn’t like it. Of course they can’t say that, so instead they make vague statements about honesty and fairness, along with unsubstantiated allegations, and hope we’ll accept it unquestioningly. If I should happen to get pulled over for a traffic violation, will they extend me that same courtesy?
    .
    I would hope at the very least that former Chief Rilling will tell us where he stands on the question of abolishing Police Captains, since that was an issue that received a fair amount of press recently.

  24. You may want to check your facts

    You can always inquire about how many grievances have been filed since Moccia has been in office, instead of assuming here that there are none.

    And @daisy please don’t confuse more expensive with more valuable. There is a very distinct difference. If a person believes that they will get more for their money (I.e. A better education for their child) why wouldn’t they pursue that? Towns like Stamford, Fairfield, etc offer more and give more for what a person pays. Tell me, what is the draw of living in Norwalk? What would make a person want to live here over those other towns?

  25. Oldtimer

    During contract negotiations, both sides agree to keep what goes on strictly private, until there is an agreement. Det Orr is merely living up to his word, honoring that agreement. Some of their discussion involves taking away benefits, or parts of benefits, that officers believed were negotiated years ago and locked in. I do not have inside information, but I have read elsewhere the City intends to lower it’s costs for medical benefits and pass more of those costs to the employees. It is safe to assume that means much higher deductibles and/or copays, big items for young officers with children.

  26. Tim T

    You may want to check your facts

    I would suggest that you … read some of the links. Also it is of no importance as to Ct or another state as it proves it can be done. It seems to me that you are looking for excuses for you brothers in blue.

    Also you state
    “Also, are you going to just blatantly ignore the fact that the majority of a officers OT is paid by private companies, organizations and people and not the tax payer?”

    The thing you forgot to add is the TAXPAYER pays those private companies for the contracts for the road work and so on . In other words the TAXPAYER is paying for every penny of the police overtime.

    You also state
    “police department has consistently come in or under budget”

    Can you please provide proof of this statement ? …

    “When you say when was the last time a police contract raise taxes”

    … Every aspect of waste in city government raises taxes and the police overtime is huge waste on the backs of the TAXPAYER.



    (This comment has been edited to conform to our policy.)

  27. Tim T

    Oldtimer
    … That’s the way it works in the real world as in the private sector. It should not be much of an issue for a cop however as many are making close to 200000 with the unlimited overtime on the backs of us taxpayers.

    (This comment has been edited to comply with our policy.)

  28. Tim T

    I just watched the video of Rilling and it was the best laugh I had in a long time. When he said the NPD was a professional department all I could think is clearly Rilling has no clue what a professional police department is. He seems he forget about the scandal after scandal when he was police consultant . He also seem to forget about the shooting after shooting almost all unsolved when he was police consultant. However let us not forget after each shooting how we heard that the NPD knew who the shooters were and they were close to solving the case. The odd thing is Rilling is gone and the cases are still not solved. Also let us not forget the famous Rilling excuses as to why the NPD failed and failed miserably to solve or prevent crime. I think the best excuse is that criminals were not taking.
    You have to love how he attempt to re-write history.

    Also when the union head spoke I hope everyone took noticed it was all about what we the taxpayer could do for the union and not what the union aka police could do for the taxpayer.

    If somehow Rilling gets elected HOLD ONTO YOUR WALLETS

    Maybe its time we look at outsourcing the police the same as was done with sanitation.

  29. M Allen

    Is it not clear what is wrong with collective bargaining units negotiating with elected officials with the power to tax? The differences between private sector unions and public sector unions are staggering when it comes to negotiations. Private sector unions are at an obvious disadvantage from not being able to pressure/influence a change to more union-friendly management. Likewise, they must always be cognizant of the fact that private companies can’t just snap their fingers and raise money to pay. If the company fails, the union fails. There is at least a somewhat symbiotic relationship. Not so here.
    .
    This is in no way directly targeting the NPD or it’s union. You guys deserve far more than you’ll ever get. It’s just more of an observation on the relationship between public sector unions, elected officials and undue influence on electoral outcomes.

  30. You may want to check your facts

    Tim T, are you going to cite sources for your claims? Because it’s kind of hard to argue statistics and facts like closure rates on cases, something which the police department does a very good job at. Also, are you going to ignore previous questions where you made wild claims with no basis in fact? Why are we going to have to “hold onto pur wallets” when Rilling wins?

  31. Day Laborer

    NYC police start at $25k/year $35K/year. That moves up to $60k after five years. And they have ZERO problems recruiting.
    .
    The private sector has seen almost no growth in the last 10 years. Let’s be glad we can afford to pay our outstanding officers what we do pay them, but let’s get them to agree we all have to share and sacrifice and maybe just count your blessings you don’t have a beat on the Grand Concourse. If you don’t like it here , maybe you should look for another employer. It’s still a free country.

    (The salary in the first sentence was edited based on figures on the website http://www.nyc.gov/html/nypd/html/faq/faq_police.shtml that were confirmed by an NYPD spokesman. Another website he referred us to, http://www.nypdrecruit.com/benefits-salary/overview, provides a more complete picture, moving beyond base pay to include other items that bring the starting pay to more than $40,000 a year.)

    In addition, the second site lists benefits someone joining the NYPD can expect:
    Additional Benefits

    10 Paid vacation days during first & second year
    13 Paid vacation days during third, fourth & fifth year
    27 Paid vacation days after 5 years of service
    Unlimited sick leave with full pay
    A choice of paid medical programs
    Prescription, dental, and eyeglass coverage
    Annuity fund
    Deferred Compensation Plan, 401K and I.R.A.
    Optional retirement at one half salary after 22 years of service*
    Annual $12,000 Variable Supplement Fund (upon retirement)
    Annual banking of $12,000 Variable Supplement Fund after 22 years of service (if not retiring)
    Excellent promotional opportunities
    Educational opportunities
    Additional benefits are available to military personnel.

    This contract expired on July 31, 2010 and future contracts will need to be negotiated between NYC and the PBA.

    *Newly hired NYPD officers can expect to receive nearly $2.2 million in pension payments and City paid health benefits over 32 years of retirement, based on the current average salary including overtime pay and other compensation; the average age of 26 for newly hired Police Officers; retirement at age 48 after 22 years of service, and assuming the average life expectancy of 80 years. Persons retiring above the rank of Police Officer will earn higher retirement payments based on their respective ranks.

  32. Mr Norwalk Ct

    @You may want to check your facts
    You have defended your union as any good police union member would. However you have provided no facts or source for your opinions.

  33. You may want to check your facts

    A NYPD patrolman tips out at around $80,000 + a year. More than a Norwalk patrolman. He also isn’t expected to do the quality of work that a Norwalk patrolman does. Perhaps our cops should look else where?

    Perhaps we should pay our cops what Clarkstown, NY PD pays it’s officers? That’s a town with a similar population to Norwalk. http://newcity.patch.com/groups/politics-and-elections/p/clarkstown-hires-eight-new-police-officers

  34. M. Murray’s

    Nypd pension is also based on last year salary + overtime. Many nypd officers retire with a yearly pension as high as or higher than their annual salary

  35. M. Murray’s

    A more appropriate comparison would be to salaries in Stamford, Darien, Wilton, Westport, and Wilton. These are towns surrounding Norwalk and salary is usually commensurate with cost if living in an area. You also have to look at other provisions in a contract. If a salary is lower in one location, they may have better pension provisions or medical benefits to balance it out. Most salary and benefit packages are very similar in lower fairfield county.

  36. Day Laborer

    Ok, they changed that recently. My bad. But, the comparison is still a valid one. Compare that to what we give our PD here and I think you will see they have nothing to complain about given housing is significantly more expensive in NYC. Plus the undeniable fact it is more dangerous job there. Maybe their employees look at it as public service still instead of how much can I get for myself?

    1. Mark Chapman

      @ Day Laborer

      Indeed, my research on the matter showed that most NYC cops cannot afford to live in New York City. Some, it was said, live in Staten Island, but most live in the northern suburbs — Westchester, Hudson and Rockland counties — or Long Island. There is a geographical restriction in the contract, but it i realistic. While some of those towns, such as Scarsdale and Chappaqua, would be way out of reach, certainly Mount Vernon, Port Chester, White Plains and Yonkers would be doable for most. Same would hold true for Fairfield County, and especially southwest Fairfield County. Tough to afford it here, which is why so many live elsewhere. If they had to live here, they would need more money in the base (except for those making big bucks from OT).

  37. Don’t Panic

    Not to mention NYPD officers ARE reqired to live in NYC or the adjacent suburban counties. And they don’t get paid OT by construction companies. Until fairly recently they weren’t allowed to moonlight either.

  38. You may want to check your facts

    Yeah Day Laborer, I think you might need to extend your research efforts a little further. FFLD county is one of the most expensive counties in the country. Outside of Manhatten, housing gets much more affordable, hence why many officers reuse in the Bronx, Queens, etc. you’re also deluding yourself if you think that those cops in NYPD don’t attempt to get everything they can every contract. I’m also sure you are basing your claim that being a cop in NYC is inherently more dangerous than here, as such, can you link me those statistics please?

    Also, what point exactly are you trying to make? That Norwalk cops should be grateful to even have jobs or something? Should they work for free and live off the love of the community?

  39. Mr Norwalk Ct

    Nypd officers are required to live in the 5 boroughs New York City or Nassau, Suffolk, Westchester, Orange, Rockland or Putnam counties. http://www.nyc.gov/html/nypd/html/faq/faq_police.shtml They also make much less than Norwalk officers. They do NOT get overtime for construction jobs even when the construction site is staffed by an Nypd officer as they are paid from a separate account which allows them to be paid straight time. Also the Nypd officer has a job that is 1000 times more difficult than a Norwalk officer.

    Maybe its time that the employees of the Norwalk Police Department show some graduate to their employer as in the taxpayers of Norwalk and stop always taking more and more from us.

    (This comment was edited because of incorrect information.)

  40. Oldtimer

    Living in Norwalk used to be a requirement for Norwalk Police, and, I believe, for all City employees. There are logical arguments to support such laws, but the City negotiated them away a long time ago when there was a big difference in costs of Norwalk houses and similar houses a short distance away. City negotiators believed, at that time, that giving up residency requirements would take away a lot of pressure for higher wages. It may have eased some pressure for higher wages, but many people believe it was a mistake. Having a police officer, or two, living on your street was reassuring for a lot of residents. Having most of City payrolls spent within the City was also a benefit. In my opinion, it is not likely a residency requirement will be re-instated, but an incentive encouraging local residence for some city employees could happen and get more living here.

  41. M. Murray’s

    Npd might like an nypd type contract with a retirement after 20 years and pension based on salary plus overtime.

  42. You may want to check your facts

    Mr. Norwalk, where are you getting your info? NYPD officers top out between $76,000 and $80,000 and usually get around over $90,000 a year with total compensation. That’s higher than Norwalk police officers receive.

    I’ll ask again, where are you basing your statement of their job being (1000x) more difficult then a CT cops?

  43. Tim T

    M. Murray
    I bet NYPD would like to make close to 200000 per year as many Norwalk cops do.

    (Editor’s note: Fact check — according to the City of Norwalk 2012 salary list, there are five Norwalk police department personnel making between $175,000 and $191,000, two of whom are above $180,000. There are 47 making between $120,000 and $165,000, and 54 making $100,000 to $119,000. That’s 106 making at least $100,000. Also, while we have no hard data on this, previeous interviews have revealed that the department is running below authorized staffing, meaning OT is not all attributable to “dirt jobs.” That said, check previous comments with links to Norwalk and NYPD salary structure.)

  44. You may want to check your facts

    By many, you really mean less than 10, right? And again, you fail to acknowledge A. How many hours they put in for that and B. That the majority of that overtime is from private sources. Why do you ignore this fact?

  45. Tim T

    Actually the Number making over 100000 is more like 80 not 10.
    Also the overtime that is paid by private companies is figured into construction project bids and contracts. If the city were to use flagmen like Westport and Darien the cost would be 15 per hours vs 65 in Norwalk plus a city car and city gas. With that said the taxpayer is paying for each and every penny of this cash cow via the construction project. The idea that they are not has been spread by the union and the chief and is simply false.

    (Tim T: Check your previous comment where I left a breakdown. There are 106 — give or take a couple in case I miscounted — making at least $100,000, the majority under $150,000. Time to put this topic to bed.)

  46. Norwalk Lifer

    My advice to those who would bash the NPD; contact city hall and see if you can get on the board to negotiate with the police union, but while you are there, also stop by BOE and see if you can negotiate the salaries of the Principals and those who work in BOE.

    But a piece of advice if you will: leave the teachers alone, they do the heavy lifting, not the administrators.

    Regards
    Norwalk Lifer

  47. EastNorwalkChick

    Last year we bashed the teachers, apparently it’s the police officers turn this year….the new shiny object to attack to distract us from the real cause of our discomfort.
    .
    Next time you NPD/NFD bashers need a first responder, walk your talk, make sure you tell them to their face, while they are helping you out of your situation, that they make too much money and are dragging our city down…and more than likely these first responders would still help you, because they do what they do because they want to. Like our teachers, it’s not for the money, it’s for the love of it.

  48. You may want to check your facts

    … Might want to check in Westport and Darien. Even their specials make $45 an hour, because the companies like having Police. …

  49. Day Laborer

    Respect is a two way street. The complaints about pay here are abusive to taxpayers who have been more than generous. We give you a 25 million dollar palace and you can’t even stop drug deals on the same corner. Time to give back a little.

  50. You may want to check your facts

    Are you aware that the citizens of Norwalk didn’t pay for that new station entirely? Are you also aware that you don’t fund the departments budget either? Also, where are there street level drug deals happening in that area???

  51. Day Laborer

    Are you saying that Norwalk citizens do not pay federal and state taxes? Who did pay for it then? I think you know the answer. No one would blame crime on our fine police force, but they should remember every day we put that building down there to clean it up and so far I’d say it hasn’t really done the trick or am I reading false police reports?

  52. You may want to check your facts

    You need to look at the percentage of your taxes that go toward police operations or how equipment is bought and paid for before just throwing out there that the citizens pay for everything. Norwalk, being considered a “urban” community gets subsidized by the state as well as having the ability to apply for numerous grants. You should also research the last time taxes were increased due to a PD contract or see if any pay given to the PD is outlandish compared to other agencies.

  53. Mr Norwalk Ct

    WOW we have a 106 police officers in Norwalk making over 100,000 a year. That is an outrageous waste of tax dollars. It’s hard for anyone in the private sector to imagine them wanting more and more. Maybe the new contract needs to put the brakes on the outrageous overtime. Maybe he new contract should be based performance for violent crimes solved. Maybe the new contract should include a pay and benefits cut.

  54. Day Laborer

    Who do you think pays state taxes and funds grants? The Easter bunny? Or are you trying to say the police generate their own revenue? I hate to break it to you, but Norwalk citizens are the ones paying for these state taxes and grants whether directly or indirectly. The money doesn’t grow on trees.

  55. You may want to check your facts

    But it’s not tax dollars paying that Mr. Norwalk. Why are you not upset over the number of teachers making that??

  56. M. Murray’s

    As stated previously, most of the overtime money on those $100,000 salaries are paid by private contractors and not taxpayers. The city also charges the contractors 8% extra, so the city actually makes money off the officers assigned to the road jobs.

  57. Mark Chapman

    Because the topic of police pay seems to have grabbed a lot of attention, and unattributed claims being made about what other towns do or do not do, we did some quick research, based on 2012 figures.

    In Norwalk, according to city figures, there were 106 — give or take a couple in case I miscounted — police officers making at least $100,000, the majority under $150,000. That’s about 55 percent of the department, depending on what the total number of officers was in 2012. Five made between $175,000 and $191,000, 47 made between $120,000 and $165,000, and 54 made $100,000 to $119,000. The totals include all OT.

    In Stamford, 134 officers made more than $100,000, including one who pulled in $277,567, according to a February article in the Stamford Advocate. Nine lieutenants averaged $168,000, eight captains averaged $152,000. There were 44 sergeants averaging $136,000. None of these figures include extra duty pay, such as “dirt jobs,” but city-related extra duty OT is included.

    Point of interest: In Stamford, 155 firefighters make more than $100,000, including OT.
    In Darien, Of the town’s top 25 salaries go to police officers, including one at $178,633 and one at $161,950. Four others are at $150,000 or above. The rest make between $123,000 and $144,000. Figures include the same things as the Norwalk figureS.

  58. M. Murray’s

    Thanks Mark. Is there a way to find out how much the City makes annually in the fees they charge businesses and contractors for extra duty officers?

    1. Mark Chapman

      Good question. We’ll look into it.

  59. You may want to check your facts

    The fee the city currently charges is 15%, and I don’t believe the PD has any day in it.

  60. Tim T

    Mark
    When you are getting the information of what the city makes from the 5 percent fee you should also get what the cost of the extra fleet of vehicles, gas, insurance and registration for those vehicle that are kept for the dirt job cost. In years past before we the taxpayer supplied vehicle for police for the privilege of working overtime at 65 per hour those retired vehicles were handed down to DPW and so on. Also to get a fair representation of the matter you would need to see how much is figured into construction contracts for the police and then compare the with the lower cost of flagman to see the true waste. I have heard some in an effort to protect the cash cow go as far as say if the construction company hired flagmen vs cops that the construction company would pocket the difference. This is simply not true as the cost is a line item in the contract that is broken down as estimated hours at a particular rate. At least that’s the way it was several years back. If this has changed this becomes even a bigger issue of waste.

  61. Tim T

    Sorry should be 8 percent fee according to Mr Murray

  62. Tim T

    Mark
    One quick note. I see that you posted the salaries of what some are making in other towns . The old saying 2 wrongs don’t make a right would be very appropriate in this case. Since other towns have waste this does not justify Norwalk having waste.

    (Tim, the figures were for comparison purposes. There is no value judgement attached. There are other questions to be asked of the mayor, his opponent, the BET, the Common Council and/or the police chief: Is the department operating at its fully authorized staffing limit? If not, why? Would it be cheaper, given the benefit package and assorted employer taxes on payroll, to hire more officers, or is it cheaper to pay the OT? Hopefully, those questions will be answered.)

  63. You may want to check your facts

    Tim T,
    The OT doesn’t come out of tax payer money, it’s paid by private companies and people when they hire. Why are you not up in arms about the teachers who make over $100,000 a year? Where is your “outrage” over this waste? I mean after all, teachers get all weekends, holidays and summers off, right? Shouldn’t we hedge their salaries accordingly then? Education eclipses the Police and Fire budget. Why aren’t you demanding returns and cuts there?

    Officers don’t make $65 an hour. There isn’t a specially ordered fleet of cars. They are all older recycled cars. The percentage is 15% that the city puts on the companies, which is not put on by the department. The cost of gas is nominal as a normal job will burn roughly a gallon to two gallons of gas at the cities government rate of just under or over $2 a gallon. …

    (This comment has been edited to conform with our policy.)

  64. Tim T

    You may want to check your facts
    I will address few of your questions
    First off teachers have masters degrees and the average education is what for a cop.. A high school diploma???

    As far as not making 65 per hour that number was rounded off as they make between 59 and 86 per hour as per the police departments site.

    As far as a fleet of vehicles I never said they were specially ordered. I actually said they were the recycled vehicles that in the past would have been turned over to DPW instead of those departments having to order cars.

    As far as you saying the cost of fuel would only be a gallon or 2 that laughable as the cars are old V-8 and not in the best of shape and are left running the entire time.. Maybe more like 6 or 7 gallons or so.

    Also the city does not get gas for 2 bucks a gallon they are only exempt from the state tax, which if I am not mistaken is about a buck per gallon. So it would still be 3 bucks a gallon.

    As far as the OT coming out of the taxpayer pocket I have explained that to you time and again how the taxpayer pays for every penny of it but you failed to understand it.

    You may want to check your facts
    FYI
    I will not be responding to your posts any longer as Mark has said it is time to put this to bed and I have made the points that I need to make. Its clear you have a different horse in the race than the taxpayers so we will leave at that.
    You have a great rest of he weekend

  65. You may want to check your facts

    It’s gross that because I don’t agree with you that I am against the tax payer. That’s such an obtuse view point and it’s fairly obvious that you have a personal vendetta against cops. Not gonna matter come November, Rilling is gonna win, it’s time for a change.

    (Editor’s note: And so ends this back-and-forth.)

Leave a Reply


Recent Comments