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Psyched Norwalk Dems strategize campaign season

Norwalk Democratic Town Committee 041513 031
Norwalk Democratic Town Committee Chairwoman Amanda Brown stays on message Monday evening in City Hall.

NORWALK, Conn. – Upbeat Norwalk Democrats met Monday night, ready to take aim at boasts made by their opposition and forming strategies to get out the vote in the fall election.

Norwalk Democratic Town Committee Chairwoman Amanda Brown touched a lot of bases, offering advice to the four mayoral campaigns, information to help the campaigns avoid election complaints and explaining efforts to avoid the discord that has marked Democratic political discourse since the last municipal election.

“We do want to be a very well prepared, organized group,” she said. “ … It is very important that if our messaging is more sexy and not so heady, we have a better chance of connecting to the public and making them vote for us.”

The committee’s new candidate vetting process includes a questionnaire; Brown said she expected a response from three of the four mayoral candidates. District D Chairman Vinny Mangiacopra already turned in his 15-page response, but Brown said Andy Garfunkel’s campaign didn’t seem responsive.

Someone suggested there had been friction between Brown and the Garfunkel committee; Brown said she had already reached out to mend that fence.

With answers in hand from the mayoral candidates, the committee will turn to the underticket.

“We need to know what the mayors are going to support … so we can also try to recruit people to get underneath those tickets and push that same vision, so when we win a full slate our people will all be on the same page,” she said. “We don’t want to have all this discord like we’ve been accustomed to.”

That underticket is already expected to include Shirley Mosby as a Board of Education candidate. Fire Marshall Broderick Sawyer has filled out a questionnaire to run as an at-large candidate for Common Council, Councilman David Watts (D-District A) said. John Kydes was described as a “spectacular” council candidate for District C by chairman Ari Disraeli.

District E Chairman Bill Krummel said he thought Councilman John Igneri would run for re-election. “He’s been feeling yes/no, but I think he’s committing,” he said.

Brown touted the money raised by Democratic mayoral candidates in the first quarter – more than $76,000, as compared to the $7,725 raised by incumbent Republican Mayor Richard Mocca – but said, “With money comes problems,” and she warned against missteps regarding campaign finance laws.

“Dick Moccia will absolutely slay us if we do anything wrong, even though he does things wrong all the time,” she said.

Guest Dianna Kulmacz of Political Accounting Consulting Services, a former member of the State Elections Enforcement Commission (SEEC), offered five ways to avoid elections complaints, and talked about the importance of a good treasurer, which is not as easy a job as it appears to be, she said.

Other developing plans in the mayoral campaign include forums for community outreach. Brown said campaigners will “focus on people who are not normally engaged” in a grassroots effort. She is looking for a South Norwalk location for a meet-and-greet that will feature three-minute campaign stump speeches.

District E has already planned a forum for May 23, from 7:30 to 9:30 p.m. at Roton Middle School, Krummel said. That will include questions and answers from the public.

The campaign has already begun at places like the New York Bakery and Overton’s Seafood, members said. Impassioned Dems are spreading the word, they said, sitting outside Overton’s for several hours to engage people in political discussions and debating Republicans at the bakery.

Zoning Commissioner Mike Mushak said letters to the editor can provide inspiration, in an “attack their strength” way.

“When they claim something that they are doing well, read that, it gives you fodder,” he said. “Respond.”

An April 7 letter to the editor from Republican Town Committee Chairman Art Scialabba spoke of successful efforts to streamline the zoning process.

“They’re streamlining the zoning process,” Mushak said. “Give me a break.”

Mangiacopra, the only mayoral candidate present, seconded that.

“There are plenty of things going on in the city that everyone should feel very free-willed to go out there and have an opinion on,” he said.

No matter who wins the primary, it will help, he said.

“We can’t let people forget about the things that have happened,” he said. “… Call me if you’re looking for some tips.”

Comments

50 responses to “Psyched Norwalk Dems strategize campaign season”

  1. LisaLen

    Count me out of any ticket that includes Shirley Mosby. Her professionalism leaves a lot to be desired and her public outbursts are outright childish. The “gotcha” politics in Norwalk has got to stop. She has not indicated any sign of growing out of that persona.

  2. NorwalkVoter

    Vinny Newton says: “There are plenty of things going on in the city that everyone should feel very free-willed to go out there and have an opinion on,” he said.

    I’d rather support someone who can speak and write proper English. This guy is always blah, blah, blah… with nothing to say.

  3. NorwalkLifer

    Vinny is the only candidate present at the Democratic Town Committee meeting!? Sounds like the only Norwalk Democrat who works as hard as he says he will.

    If you want to hold his age against him go ahead, but as far as his campaign has gone, he’s doing a spectacular job.

  4. Oldtimer

    Moccia would love to see all four attack each other and leave the primary winner a weaker divided party for the election. They need to agree to focus on what each of them will do better than moccia and avoid attacking each other. The focus should be on honest, open government where anybody can go online and see where the money from the Island Belle, for example, really went, if, in fact, he ever paid. If there is anything to the stories he was paying cash, that needs to come out along with where the cash went. The true story about police overtime needs to be told and put a stop to the questions about overtime abuse. The fire dept has the same situation from also being deliberately kept shorthanded and needing to hire at OT rates to fill shifts. A serious effort to keep the party united for the campaign against moccia needs to be the highest priority.

  5. D(ysfunctional)TC

    On the absence of the other 3 candidates…..maybe, just maybe some town Democrats are starting to realize that their local party is being run by a bunch of kooks and to stay away as much as possible.

    Sexy? Let’s get sexy? That’s your strategy?

  6. Joe Espo

    If four white guys were jockying to get the Republican mayoral nomination, Amanda Brown, David Watts and Warren Pena would scream racism and bigotry. Why isn’t anyone complaining that the democrats are running only white guys and no women or minorities? Shouldn’t Amanda Brown be held accountable for excluding women and minorities from this mayoral election and denying Norwalk the opportunity to elect its first african-american or hispanic mayor?

  7. David

    The parents are mad at the Mayor for cutting education funding. The West Norwalk residents are mad at the Mayor for funding Oak Hills. The rest of the city seems to be mad at taxes going up this year.

    If the Democrats can’t win this thing in a landslide, they ought to pack it in and go home.

  8. Bruce Kimmel

    David,you mean a few folks are mad because the BOE operating request was not fully funded IMMEDIATELY. And that a few West Norwalk folks are angry at the $150,000 loan to Oak Hills. And that a few more folks are angry at taxes going up, which happened primarily because the city gave the BOE virtually everything it asked for. David, you can’t have everything.

  9. David

    Bruce, I was commenting on the level of dissatisfaction amongst core voting groups, not my own personal dissatisfactions. I’m not unhappy with the proposed tax increases this year – heck, they can tax me more if they commit to increased education funding.

    While we’re here – It wasn’t a “few folks” that packed city hall to capacity at a BOE meeting in the spring of 2011, or protested outside the same building during the summer. It was *mass* protest. Leading up to the election last November parents were openly discussing the city’s defunding of schools – I heard them myself.

    The only barometer for dissatisfaction was the senate race that Jack Chiarmonte was involved in. The result was a trouncing, but in Norwalk it was worse! Jack barely won a quarter of the vote – Romney managed a little more than 35%, so he couldn’t even win the straight party line vote! 10 points in the difference?

    My original comment was to shine a light on three of the major issues voters will consider in the upcoming election. I stand by my assertion, if the democrats can’t hammer the Mayor over the head with those three, they ought to just fold up their tent.

    But thank you for forcing me to explore some of the details around at least one of those three points.

  10. Asa H.M.

    I agree with the comments from D(ysfunctional)TC, and also wonder why people think that just because a candidate does not show up for a photo op at every little event around town, that is construed as not taking an interest in our city. For people to believe that attendance of a candidate at multiple events they manage to ‘attend’ in a night is so important, please start looking past these surface issues. Ideas for making Norwalk a better, more livable and desirable place is the big picture. The platforms each candidate put forth to insure this success is much more important than seeing them all over town for the sake of just another photo. I for one would rather have a candidate with ideas that work, sexy or not…

  11. If it seems everyone has seen the abuse of police at worksites, then this should be included as one of those town issues that if the Dems can cut (and according to some in particular feel they should be) then they should be cut….

    That may seem interesting to the democratic campaigns.

  12. Oldtimer

    There are a lot of questions they need to ask Moccia. One of the major players at City Carting cannot work in NY State because of organised crime history and Moccia puts on a highly indignant act when the question of vetting contractors who bid for city business for organised crime connections is raised, but never answers the question. Did the Island Belle pay anything to the City ? was it cash ? where did it go ? Why haven’t the Oak Hill books been subject to a forensic audit ?

  13. Tim T

    Irish Girl
    You are correct the police at construction sites not doing their job and the abuse of overtime should be an issue to all the candidates. I know if they actually have a debate that is one of the issues I will raise. As a side note once again today at the strawberry hill construction site a cop sitting in the car doing nothing while traffic is almost running into each other. At least when you have flagman at a cost saving of 50 per hour and no city car or city gas they are actually directing traffic. Its unfortunate the NPD is so money hungry and yet so lazy.

  14. Tim T

    Oldtimer
    I understand that no one seems to know where the money goes from the out of town folks that use the beach. Add that to the dollars from the Island Belle along with that ongoigggggggggggggg investigation into the employee at the town clerks office.

  15. Tim T –
    You think you are so clever by wordsmithing and thinking no one is the wiser that you put your twist and reword on other’s postings..

    NO WHERE did I agree with you about your insistence that police are not doing their jobs at the worksite – I just suggested since this is something that “everyone” insists is going on – let’s see the dem straighten it out (for you). It is good to hear you will be challenging each of the candidates about this issue so it will be interesting if you will get a hardfast answer thereby locking them into this issue/promise of recourse.

    If you had video, that would be great for your candidate and the rest of the public but since you don’t… you can cite your postings/recordings again and again.

    I do look forward to reading about this when the debates come up and what each candidates proposal/plan for change or the demise of this contract, if any.

    If a dem is voted in – we will see if and when any of this changes and how vocal you will be… but time will tell.

    Me, personally? I’ve seen many policemen today working traffic at the job sites. And yes, one of them was at the Strawberry Hill site.

  16. Mr Norwalk Ct

    Irish Girl
    it would be nice if you had video to support your claim as you seem to be the only one in Norwalk that actually sees the police doing anything at construction sites. I along with most in Norwalk observe the police sleeping having a coffee reading the paper or sitting in the car taking a nap.

  17. David

    @Mr Norwalk CT: You level an accusation, you provide evidence to back that up. In my experience, when I see an Officer at a work site, they are outside of their cars, on duty. Some may have a coffee in their hand, but I don’t consider that an impediment to them doing their job.

    What is Irish Girl supposed to do, run around taking video of Cops doing their job? Ridiculous. If the Police aren’t doing their job, as you claim, get evidence and bring it to a review board. Force disciplinary action on the offenders.

    I’m guessing the reason why you don’t do that is because you have no such evidence. Please, go troll somewhere else.

  18. Mr Norwalk Ct

    David
    First let me say that I am glad that you have observed police doing what they are paid to do as you are one of the very few in Norwalk that have.
    Also I do not need you critiquing my posts as what I have seen of your posts on this board I do not have much respect for your opinion. In regards to my comment about video to Irish Girl all I simply did was post the same suggestion that she posted to anther poster that she disagreed with. I do agree that it would be stupid to take video of the police due to fears of repercussion from the thugs. My point was just that and I am glad that you agree.
    Also maybe you are not aware but Norwalk does not have a civilian review board for the police department. What they to have is the YES men aka the police commission. However it is high time that Norwalk does get a police civilian review board.

  19. LWitherspoon

    Earlier this week I observed two Norwalk police officers at the Strawberry Hill site. Both were outside of their cars directing traffic with their hands. Traffic moved fine, but it would probably have been safer and more effective for all involved to direct traffic using “STOP” and “SLOW” signs the way that flagmen do.

  20. MNC:
    There is a huge difference between your childish retaliatory statement and my earnest suggestion to you; I have no problem with the police at the worksites! I did not know if ever occurred to you that videos of “said behavior” on more than one occasion for more than one officer (or a repeat offender) would be the catalyst for change. It just turns out that you/Tim are offended that some do not take what you say as gospel truth.
    Additionally, I am not the one endlessly tirading, analyzing hours at the site, costs for vehicles, gas and overtime pay at every given chance. I do not have to prove they are working because by definition, they are on the job. However, you do need to prove they are not working; the onus is on you.
    Coincidently, I think, you also like to twist interpretations of postings and blatantly mislead readers (as Tim T always does) into thinking David agreed with you, even though you know he did not.
    This is the last of it since you have made your intentions clear. It will be interesting when Tim addresses this to the candidates.

  21. David

    @Mr Norwalk CT: I really don’t care if you like my opinions, and I’m not going after your “opinions”. I have no problem agreeing to disagree, either. This, however, is a public forum and I’ll comment on your posts as much as I like. If you don’t like that, find another forum. Either way, I don’t really care.

    What you’re attempting to do here is present your opinion as “facts”. You present as fact that Police officers don’t do their job while at work sites.

    OK, well, prove it. If you prove it, I’ll agree with that facts. Otherwise, I won’t agree with your opinion.

    Enjoy!

  22. Tim T

    David
    Since you stated to Mr Norwalk that this is public forum and I’ll comment on your posts as much as I like.
    I will take the liberty of commenting on your posts. That you are wrong 100 percent. I also believe that you are a police officer of relative of such with your posts as you seem to be to concerned with others that have a different opinion than yours that calls the NPD out for what they are.. A bunch of lazy do nothings .

    Also I will challenge you the same thing that you challenge the other poster to
    What you’re attempting to do here is present your opinion as “facts”. You present as fact that Police officers actually do their job while at work sites.

    OK, well, prove it. If you prove it, I’ll agree with that facts. Otherwise, I won’t agree with your opinion.

    Also where do you get off saying “Please, go troll somewhere else.” to someone because they disagree with you “opinion ”
    Also where do you get off say “If you don’t like that, find another forum. ”
    You do not own this forum anymore than I do or Mr Norwalk does.

  23. Oldtimer

    Tim
    There are times when we agree, but we clearly have a different idea of why police officers are at some construction sites where the road is being dug up, and what they should be doing. Nobody in the police dept., or in the union, is putting pressure on contractors to hire police to handle traffic at these jobs. Insurance carriers prefer police be present at these jobs to deal with traffic problems as needed. Many of the request for officers are not filled and contractors then make other arrangements, sometimes using laborers with signs. Most contractors do not have extra laborers on a job and find having to assign laborers to direct traffic a real nuisance. Paying police, at OT rates seems like expensive, but there are other considerations you don’t consider when you complain so much about seeing them, and, worse yet, seeing them when they are clearly not working very hard.
    Your concerns about some officers earning some overtime when you don’t get the same opportunity suggests you either have your own personal reasons to dislike police officers, or you have never been able to qualify for a job that pays that well . Those officers are not being paid out of tax money, and the city makes a percentage on those jobs.
    what is your problem ? If you know so much about police work, you should apply for a job, they are looking for a few good people.

  24. Tim T

    Old Timer
    My concern is nothing as you suggest. My concern is the waste of tax dollars when we are getting a 4 percent tax increase and this is a simple savings.
    I understand why you support the overtime of PD as if I am not mistaken you are a retired officer.
    I also feel that the NPD has taken this as an entitlement and feel that they do not need to preform to get the OT.
    I am not sure if you are aware not not but police services have been outsourced in other communities due to the union strangle hold on the taxpayer. I am not suggesting this but it is something to keep in mind. Also companies do exist that have certified traffic agents that cost much less than PD. The added benefit of the flagmen is the cost savings of the extra fleet of vehicles and gas, plus the flagman actually do direct traffic unlike what I have observed of the NPD. Also the contractors insurance companies could care less if the one directing traffic is a cop or a flagman.
    You state “Those officers are not being paid out of tax money, and the city makes a percentage on those jobs”. That is simply not correct as the contractors are not absorbing the extra dollar of cops vs flagman. When the bids are figured they take into account the requirements of the town and figure with that in mind.

  25. David

    @Tim:

    What? Seriously though….WHAT? Let me see if I get this right – you want me to take video of Police Officers doing their job….to *prove* that they are actually doing their job? In this country, we subscribe to the general mantra of “innocent until proven guilty”, and the problem here is that you and Mr. Norwalk are accusing the Police of not just doing their jobs, but being negligent in their duties. That’s a pretty serious allegation to level at ANYONE!

    I give the benefit of the doubt to anyone, you included, that you do your job. If I believe otherwise, it is incumbent of me, the accuser, to provide evidence to the contrary.

    Tim, that’s just the American way!

    Now, to clear up a few other points: I am not a police officer and I have no relatives who are Police officers. In the just-under 5 years I’ve been in Norwalk, I don’t even think I’ve even met or talked to a Norwalk Cop. So….BIG swing and miss right there – nice try though 😉

    Mr. Norwalk was trolling. He took Irish Girl’s comments (don’t know her either, by the way) and turned them into his own subject to start a story on. Nothing to do with the original piece. Trolling at its finest.

    Last – and we always save the best for last, don’t we? – I really don’t care what you think of my opinion. I mean, really, I’ve been in front of people who’s opinions of me matter – think board members of a big company – but you’ll forgive me if I don’t get all self conscious about your opinion of my opinions…or something like that. LOL.

    Anyway, this HAS been fun. Look, at the bottom of this page are instructions for how to post URL’s, so please DO be sure to take that video of the Norwalk Cops sleeping in their cars and DO post it to YouTube…at your convenience, of course!

    Bye now!

  26. Tim T

    David
    As you state
    In this country, we subscribe to the general mantra of “innocent until proven guilty”
    You are calling people liars so prove it.
    Anyway, this HAS been fun. Look, at the bottom of this page are instructions for how to post URL’s, so please DO be sure to take that video of the Norwalk Cops doing their job and DO post it to YouTube…at your convenience, of course!

    Bye now!

  27. The only person calling liar is Tim and MNC because they are the ones who are repeatedly writing in that the NPD aren’t doing their jobs at the worksite.

    So Tim, again, it is up to you to prove it.

  28. David

    Again, Tim, you’ve got it wrong. I didn’t call anyone a liar – you and Mr. Norwalk are the people are the ones accusing the police of malfeasance. I even said I’d concede your point if you proved it. As I am not making accusations, there’s nothing for me to videotape. But, please, don’t let me stop you in your crusade to unearth serious misconduct withing the NPD!

    (This comment has been edited to conform with our comment policy)

  29. Tom

    WOW!!!! Talk about digression!!! This article is about the Democractic Town Committee and the strategies they plan on implementing during the upcoming election. You people waste all your time talking about NPD officers at extra-duty sites….Amazing. Is that the ONLY issue you believe is critical to the betterment of this troubled city??? If so, then you should cast your vote for Moccia since everything else must be hunky dory. Get a grip folks; start a discussion on the real issues…

  30. D(ysfunctional)TC

    ding, ding, ding….we have a winner.

    In one paragraph, Tom sums it up perfectly. This is exemplary of the kind of nonsense that the current DTC is famous for doing. Wasting time and resources on things that barely matter just to make a point like paving roads on election day. To bad others have decided to walk away as it looks like the leadership is ripe for change here.

  31. Tim T

    Tom
    You do make a point. However the police overtime is an issues as this is a huge factor in the waste the Moccia administration has allowed. Moccia and his rubber stamp police commission has not only allowed the out of control police overtime, but allowed the police to not be accountable for doing what they are being overpaid to do. The Moccia administration has also been in denial about the gang and crime epidemic for years and now it has become out of control. The Moccia administration also did ZERO search for a new chief from outside the old boys club that may have been able to fix what many believe to be a broken failed police department. With that said Tom its more than just the overtime with the NPD. However you do make a very good point about the many other issues of the Moccia adminstration that we should be addressing.

  32. Tim T

    On a side note what has happened to Andy as he seems nowhere to be found in the mayors race.

  33. EastNorwalkChick

    @Tim, Police Extra Duty is charged back to the contractor, so yes, OldTimer is correct. Unfortunately when they post the top salaries in the paper, they fail to back out the portion that has been reimbursed back to the city, so the numbers are very misleading.

    But I agree with you that we have more important issues, such as funding the BOE budget, looking into the Island Bell revenue, our zoning laws, hit or miss as they be, the whole Oak Hills debacle..

    This is the Dems race to loose, I just hope they have a clean primary like another poster stated, if not, it will be their downfall…don’t think I can take another Moccia term.

  34. Tim T

    EastNorwalkChick
    Not true
    The police extra duty is figured into the bids for the project. The taxpayer pays for the project, with that said each and every penny of the job is coming out of the taxpayers pocket. You can attempt to present it however you like but the fact of the matter is the taxpayer is ultimately paying for it. If the job was figured with a lesser amount of the flagman vs the cops the saving would be 50 per hour as the bid from the contractor would be less . Also let us not forget the PD has an additional fleet of vehicles for dirt jobs that need maintenance and gas. Between the 50 per hour savings, the additional fleet of cars and gas this could result in the saving of millions each year for the taxpayer. The police union, police department and the administration is misleading you. Do you think for one second that the contractors are absorbing this extra cost? If so I have a bridge for sale..Are you interested. LOL..Also maybe this could alleviate a big part of the Moccia 4 percent tax increase.

  35. Tim T

    A little something from a Massachusetts survey
    Police officers working at construction sites on local roads were paid an estimated $94.3 million statewide last year, more than three times the amount civilian flaggers might have cost, according to a study that questions whether details pay off in road safety.
    The study contends that taxpayers and businesses could have saved $37 million to $67 million if local laws allowed companies and government agencies to hire civilian flaggers instead of uniformed officers to direct traffic at construction sites.

    “Somebody owes the public a big explanation as to why we are wasting millions of dollars a year on these details,” said David Tuerck, executive director of the Beacon Hill Institute at Suffolk University, which conducted the study. “The police cannot produce one shred of evidence to support why we need this expense.”

  36. Tim T

    I forgot to add one very important piece of information to my last post. Connecticut (Norwalk) law unlike Massachusetts law currently allows for flagmen vs cops at construction sites.

  37. Tom

    Thank you D(ysfunctional)TC: You got the message and tried to push it forward. Unfortunately, no one else did and they kept up the rhetoric about police overtime at extra-duty jobs. I was hoping to get the discussion going in the right direction like education, smart development,crime, etc…but I guess those issues are less important to these bloggers who seem to have an unexplainable grudge against our police department

  38. EastNorwalkChick

    @Tom, I got your message loud and clear, I am hoping that one of these candidates also hears your message, there is much more that needs to be discussed on the major issues that face this City. Excessive overtime by the police seems to be one of those shiny objects that people like to jiggle when they have no answers or no clue on what they think should be done to correct the big picture. God help us, if the campaign is just a bunch of shiny objects….

  39. Tim T

    Amazing how anyone can say that the waste of millions of dollars is discussion going in the wrong direction and consider that waste rhetoric . I can’t see how a “taxpayer” is not concerned with this unless of course that “taxpayer” is profiting from the system. I do consider excessive overtime by the police a major issue and will continue to push it when millions could be saved without cutting city services or and without a tax increase, This is an issue if the administration is democrat of republican. Also as a side not why is it anytime anyone critiques the police someone attempts to infer that the person doing the critiquing has a grudge against our police department or says take the police test. Of course these are the same people that would be all over a cashier at Walmart that shorted them a buck worth of change, but millions of waste on police overtime doesn’t seem to matter for some strange reason.. I guess its just a lame a attempt to discredit anyone that critiques the police..Well it will not work.

  40. BARIN

    The police dept. has not been up to full manpower for some time now, thus overtime costs.
    We also hear complaints about crime on the rise, let us face the facts.
    If you don’t have enough police officers how can we expect the crime not to rise?
    Complain about crime, while at the same time complain about overtime, you can’t have it both ways.
    The answer is give the police the manpower they need and then we can talk.
    Of course you will here from the decision makers that it will cost more to hire new police officers than the overtime costs, remember many of the decision makers don’t live in Norwalk so crime here won’t hit them.
    My personal opinion is city dept. heads should be required to live in Norwalk so their decisions also directly effect them.
    I’ve heard Rilling speak of manpower shortages in the past and I bet the new police chief would love to have his dept. fully manned.
    Hire up folks and until we do stop complaining.
    @ Tom
    Thanks for trying to keep us focused.

  41. oldtimer

    Tim
    Your argument that the cost for cops to work construction jobs is eventually paid by taxpayers only holds water when the construction job is being done for the city. Most of the time, a property owner is paying and it cost you nothing. Even when the City is paying, as often as not, the contractors hire extra laborers to do traffic, not police officers. For example, look back at the paving work Deering did on West Ave between the turnpike and Reed St. Did you ever see a cop working for OT there ? The choice is entirely the contractor’s. The City reports all the OT as if it was being paid by the City and you cannot tell from the way they report it, how much is OT paid for by the City and how much the City is reimbursed for, plus a service fee (income for the city). I am not claiming I know the real numbers, either, but Tom Hamilton could tell you, if you asked.

  42. Tim T

    Old Timer
    Afraid you are misrepresenting the truth. Here is a perfect example. Today on Strawberry Hill
    where the “City” (not the homeowner) is putting in new sidewalks and storm drains. In a section less than an eight of a mile I seen no less than 7 police cars all running of course with no less than 7 cops either sitting in the car or starring aimlessly into the hole. This has been going on for weeks. I will give you a break down.

    7 cops times an 8 hour day equals 56 hours
    56 hours times 65 per hour equals $3640.00 per day
    $3640.00 times 5 days equal $18200.00
    Plus and estimate on 7 running cars with wear and tear and gas $500.00 per week (low ball)
    Total car and cops $18700.00

    Now the cost for flagmen
    7 flagmen times an 8 hour day equals 56 hours
    56 hours times 15 per hour equals $975.00 per day
    $975.00 times 5 days equals $4875.00
    No city car and no city gas
    Total $4875.00

    Cops $18700.00
    Flagmen $4875.00

    Savings of $13825.00 with flagmen vs cops
    Plus the added benefit of the flagmen actually directing traffic)
    For one eight of a mile
    For one week
    The numbers don’t lie. The only ones I can fathom protesting this saving are the ones currently profiting from this or the ones that have profited from this in the past.

    Also Old timer you say that the construction companies hire extra laborers for traffic control. I have you tell you have not seen that in Norwalk for years. Other town’s cities and Moccia urban center YES but Norwalk NO. However that is exactly what I am suggesting that needs to start happening.

  43. Tim T

    Old timer
    Maybe you missed the survey I posted in reference to Massachusetts
    You can see it posted above. It seems they are also getting fed up with this police overtime on dirt jobs cash cow.

  44. Tim T

    BARIN
    My posts have ZERO to do with overtime for covering shifts. They have to do with overtime for construction jobs. However just think of all the extra cops that could be hired if we stopped wasting these millions on dirt jobs paying cops overtime when flagmen could do the same job for much less..

  45. BARIN

    Tim, the construction company pays for the officer at the site, you need to grasp that concept.
    If you talk about the fuel/maintenence for the officers patrol vehicle at the dirt job site, that I can see being paid for by us is wrong, although I know of officers who have used their personal vehicles on the dirt jobs too.
    Besides overtime is overtime regardless, again let’s get the dept. fully staffed and then we can continue an informed discussion after the results are in.

  46. Tim T

    BARIN the construction company figures the cost of the officer or flagman into the bid/contract. The taxpayer pays for the cost of the contract. If the cost is less by using flagman vs cops then the contract is less thus the taxpayer paying less. Now do you grasp that concept? Also you state overtime is overtime. The thing that you don’t seem grasp is that millions of dollars of overtime can be saved if we do away with cops at construction site and replace them with flagmen.
    Also you state “I know of officers who have used their personal vehicles on the dirt jobs too.” I have news for you that has not been the case in Norwalk for at least 10 years. Other town, cities and Moccia urban center Yes but Norwalk NO

  47. BARIN

    Please Tim, just because you say something over and over it doesn’t make it true.
    I’ll say this, it sounds as if you don’t like companies paying for police at sites, you don’t want police to have the opportunity to earn or you’re a flagman.
    Okay for sake of argument say they only use flagmen at sites, flagmen use a sign (stop/slow) sometimes a plain ol’ hand will do for them, officers have emergency lights/sirens as well as the ability to keep drivers from flying through sites (radio’s/power of arrest) and as I’m sure YOU have seen, angry, in a hurry drivers disregard the flagmen altogether at times.
    Drivers are unpredictable when rushing through sites, officers on scene WILL keep drivers from being a danger to themselves or others.
    That said, does public safety play into your numbers for cost saving?
    You can’t put a price on someone’s life my friend!
    MAYBE small sites flagmen but certainly uniformed officers (in squad cars) anywhere else.
    No police using their personal cars for at least 10 years you say, are you sure?
    On top of that hiring up will cut overtime but you would still pay salaries and benefits for new hires, as I have previously stated crime is a huge issue in Norwalk, more officers on the job can only help, agreed?
    Have you checked the requirements for officers stationed at these sites? I don’t think you have, get back to me on that and don’t make something up either.
    C’mon man use that noodle for good valid and solid discussion.

  48. Tim T

    Please Barin, just because you say something over and over it doesn’t make it true.
    You state
    I’ll say this, it sounds as if you don’t like companies paying for police at sites, you don’t want police to have the opportunity to earn or you’re a flagman.
    Once again I will educate you the companies are NOT paying for the police at construction siies, the taxpayers are. Do you honesty think that the construction companies are absorbing the cost of cops vs flagmen out of the goodness of their hearts
    Maybe you have never seen a construction bid for a city project . They have a column that is called “traffic control” and in the column they have a figure for how many hours and at what rate . The taxpayers are the ones paying for that contract thus the taxpayer are the ones paying for the police.
    Also as far as police being needed at construction sites this is a quote from an expert on the matter
    “said David Tuerck, executive director of the Beacon Hill Institute at Suffolk University, which conducted the study. “The police cannot produce one shred of evidence to support why we need this expense.”” So you can go on and on about squad cars and light and siren but according to the expert flagmen are just fine and the extra cost of cops is not justified.
    I have to tend to believe that you have some vested interest in this cash cow and are afraid by me raising this issue over and over again that someone will take notice and put a stop to it. Well BARIN that is exactly my plan. You can ignore the many facts that I have posted in this thread but the facts are the facts, which you have provided none.
    C’mon man use that noodle for good valid and solid discussion

  49. BARIN

    Wow Tim pretty good middle school reply, you sure know how to copy and paste, flagmen are multi talented!
    One more time, is public safety factored into your savings?
    You can count on one thing for sure, from here on my ignoring will be used exclusively for you.

  50. Tim T

    BARIN
    As the experts said (copy and Paste)David Tuerck, executive director of the Beacon Hill Institute at Suffolk University, which conducted the study. “The police cannot produce one shred of evidence to support why we need this expense.”” So you can go on and on about squad cars and light and siren but according to the expert flagmen are just fine and the extra cost of cops is not justified.
    KEY WORD NOT JUSTIFIED

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